Attention Deficit Delirium

Kip Winger live.
(Courtesy of Kip Winger.com.)

People generally know Kip Winger as a purveyor of pop metal. Some know of his classical ballet training as a teenager. Fewer know that he is now a classical composer. But that is slowly changing.

The bassist, guitarist and singer, who still records and tours with the band that bears his name, is increasingly making the move into the classical world, with his first major work Ghosts premiering to critical acclaim at the San Francisco Ballet earlier this year. (Take that, Beavis and Butthead.) Like fellow rock musicians Duncan Sheik and David Bryan, Winger is finding new musical avenues to express himself in.

While touring in Europe last month, Kip sat down to chat with ADD about his life in rock, dance and classical and expand upon the dual life he has been leading all of these years. (Part One can be found here.)


I imagine that this has been an interesting transition period for you because you’ve been known mainly for your work with Winger, and even though you have this ballet and classical background, there are probably people in the classical world who knew very little about what you have done there. You surely have surprised fans in both worlds. Have you met classical people who had no clue about that side of your life?
Most of them. Maybe there’s one or two [who [knew]. It was amazing in San Francisco, by the way, because I walk in and people think, “What’s this going to be like?” I actually read a couple of reviews that said when they heard Kip Winger did the music, they thought it would be blues or rock, and they were really into it. They were very shocked by it actually because it’s very organic classical music. I was actually considering changing my name to Charles, which is my real name, thinking that would give me a little more credibility. Kip has been a nickname since I was a kid, but I called that off because what ended up happening was I got more press for the San Francisco Ballet than they’ve ever had for one of those ballets.

Being honored by the State Department:
Kip receives the American flag from General Cross.
(Courtesy of Kip Winger.com.)

Do you think that was part of choreographer Christopher Wheeldon‘s decision to work on Ghosts?
He didn’t even know who I was. The first time he realized I was famous was when he saw Rock Of Ages, and [the narrator] Lonny said he was going to beat up someone for dissing Kip Winger. He didn’t know. He totally didn’t get it. It was amazing, which was great for me because he chose it [Ghosts] off the merit of the music.

The latest Winger album, Karma.

I’m a big ’80s fan, and I embrace music from my past, even if some of it is considered to be cheesy. Some people refuse to acknowledge that aspect of nostalgia in a positive way, as if liking it in earnest is bad.
It’s no great mystery that I was at the scene of the crime of that whole thing. I went through a whole period of being publicly stoned to death. When the grunge thing happened, it really fell out, but on top of that I was singled out, which ironically turned out to be great because it gave me a lot of time to go back to the books and study and do what I really wanted to be doing.

What was the inspiration for you to create Ghosts?
Writing a piece for Chris Wheeldon. I wanted to write a legitimate piece that would hold up in any arena. I was living in Nashville, and still do, when I was writing it, and I didn’t know where I was going to go with it. It’s kind of a bizarre story actually. I was working [on the music] in an old hospital in Nashville that had been converted into office space and recording studio space, and the place just had the weirdest vibe. There was a mystical thing about it. I just kept hearing strange noises and stuff. I kept hearing this one theme that starts in the cadenza of the first violin bit at the beginning of the first movement. The place was not like a haunted house, but there was this strange, mystical essence around the studio, and the word “ghosts” came when I was writing that little bit there. It just stuck, and I used it as a working title. The further that I went into writing the piece, I started seeing different personalities that were popping out of the music and started developing the characters in that way. When Chris heard the music and heard the title, there was really no turning back. Usually choreographers name their piece whatever they want to, even if the music has another working title, but he stuck with that. There are 17 dancers I believe, and he made the ballet like a mass of souls after a tragedy, all trying to find their way. It works so well. I couldn’t believe how he did that, almost like it was a shipwreck or something. There’s a big piece of wreckage above the stage that continually moves throughout the piece, like the wreckage of a boat, and the dancers are below it. Sometimes it looks like they’re underwater. What he did was unbelievable, and the costumes were amazing. The whole team was exceptional.
[continued below]

Kip Winger at work during the Ghosts recording session.
(Courtesy of Kip Winger.com.)

One thing that he did that was very interesting was that I wrote the piece in three movements — misterioso, largamente and the adagio — and in ballet the adagio is usually in the middle, but the arc of the piece fell into this form I did. He got the piece, and a month before he went to San Francisco he called me and asked if I could make it longer. He needed about four more minutes. After messing around with it, I decided to write another movement. I wrote another movement that was about four minutes and squeezed in there. When I went to watch the rehearsal, he rearranged all the movements where my second movement went fourth, my third movement stayed third and he stuck the new movement in second, and it’s awesome. I don’t have an actual recording of the second movement. It’s on iTunes in the way I [originally] wrote it, which is why I called it “Suite No. 1″. So I’ll record the other one and call it “Suite No. 2″ and arrange it in the order that he did. At first there was a little voice in my head that said, “Wow, he changed it. Is that good or bad?” But then I thought that this is what art is. You get the other guy who’s doing his vision. He grabbed the piece and turned it around into what he saw it as. He’s a master, by the way. He rearranged the whole piece, and it was better. It was really an amazing experience. It’s very satisfying and gratifying.

Is classical music something you’re going to be transitioning to in the years ahead?
Yes.





After all of these years — having reunited Winger, recorded and toured again, and having completed your first classical ballet — do you feel vindicated?
Yeah, I do. I feel like now people are starting to understand [it]. The most painful part about getting booted out of the business back in the ’90s would have been — and I don’t know if they did or not — if people didn’t think I was a good musician. That was always the most important thing to me. Now that my career is basically living off of the good musicianship, that is really the vindication for me because that’s the most important thing.

A thumbs up from Kip at the Palms Casino Resort.
(Courtesy of Kip Winger.com.)

What are the most underrated Winger songs?
It depends on what level you’re talking about. We did some really deep stuff on Winger IV. It was our first record in 10 years, and a lot of people didn’t get it because I was in the throes of this explosion of music theory and chromaticism. I jam packed that record with a lot of heavy duty music. People just didn’t connect a song like “Right Up Ahead” and “Blue Suede Shoes”. Actually, the State Department gave me an award for “Blue Suede Shoes,” so I did get recognized for that. Musically, even “Headed For A Heartbreak” had a different approach to it. It [also] had a huge guitar solo. We were very proud of the fact that we always had these ripping guitar solos on our hits. I think when musicians hear it they go, “Wow, these guys are really happening.” The general public either likes the songs or they don’t. In pop music you could be doing computer music like Britney Spears and still could be great or could be shit. There are a few of our tunes that I would say [are underrated] like “In For The Kill” and “Under One Condition,” or “Witness” on Karma. People get it if they like it. I don’t really pay attention to that stuff anymore.

All of you have strong musical pedigrees and went on to other solid projects. For example, Reb Beach played on Dokken’s Erase The Slate, which is a great album.
He did, and he’s been in Whitesnake for six years. He’s got an amazing career — he did Alice Cooper, Dokken, Whitesnake and Night Ranger. He keeps getting better, man. Our drummer Rod Morgenstein is now a full professor at Berklee, and the other guy John Roth is the lead guitar player in Giant. Everybody has their own thing going. Like I say, honestly, we get together to do this to hang out with each other and make a few bucks. We just all have too much going on.





Are there any other projects that you’re working on?
It’s funny, because I’m actually writing another ballet. I’ve got sketches for four movements. Again, this stuff takes a really long time because it’s just a deeper art form. I don’t mean it in an egotistical way, but to not sound dorky you have to really flesh it out. It’s like a movie script — you’ve got all the different characters, and they all have to develop. It’s like the difference between you writing an interview and a short story. Seeing the whole thing simultaneously from beginning to end — if that muscle memory is not developed — it’s hard to develop that, where you can grasp something so much bigger simultaneously. That’s been a big challenge for me. I’m getting better at it, but it really just takes practice. That’s what guys like Beethoven did. There was no Internet, no TV. They would just do that until that part of the brain was working all the time. I’m trying to wean myself into that whole world, and it’s definitely different.

Recent Winger promo shot
by Studio Rigby/Andres Martinez.
(Courtesy of Kip Winger.com.)

Some rock musicians and bands want to change and evolve, and some don’t. Some don’t need to change to succeed if they have a winning formula.
We were one big album away from headlining arenas and making shitloads of cash. My band came too late. We hit that genre about four years too late. Bon Jovi is obviously the one who nailed it. But had I done that and been making all that money, it does get addictive, man. I’m just happy that stuff turned out the way it did for me. I’d love all the money, of course, but if I had the choice I’d rather be in the position I am in now with the music I’m able to write. One of my biggest templates is to seek out this mentor program that I do. I find somebody that whoops my ass, and I go study with them. I continue to do that.

Do you mean that they’re mentoring you in music?
Composition, man. Right now I go to Michael Kurek. I’ve been going to him for a long time. He can still pull my head out of my ass, and it’s not like taking lessons. I’ll go three months and get stuck and go to him. He’ll look at it and give me a clear picture of what I’m doing, and so far he’s still inspiring it out of me. I was with a guy in New Mexico for four years and got everything I could out of him and moved on. There have been a couple of very famous composers that I’ve met, and I am working on maybe going to work with them a little bit, just finding people that are better. It’s kind of like skiing. When there’s somebody better than you, you go down the black diamond and watch them do it and you get to get better, rather than hang out with the people that are worse.



View from the ground floor of the Hard Rock Cafe in NYC on Grammy night, January 31, 2010. (Photo ©2010 by Bryan Reesman.)

One of the perks of being a voting member of the Recording Academy is that I can attend special seminars and screenings, go to Q&As with major industry talent, get discounts to conventions and be part of the annual members viewing party for the Grammys in NYC. For 2010, the Recording Academy held a free event with food and drink at the Hard Rock Cafe in Times Square that was packed to the gills with members and governors. It was fun to watch the event on a giant video projection screen with a big sound system to outdo my big screen TV. WPLJ DJ Christine Richie hosted and gave away prizes.

As for the 52nd Annual Grammy Awards show itself, there were plenty of flashy numbers (particularly Pink’s impressive suspension act), surprise pairings and one-liners from host Stephen Colbert to keep people watching, and it was entertaining to witness the entire crowd in the Hard Rock singing along to “Livin’ On A Prayer”. Then again, we were in the NY/NJ area. But I have a complaint: While I applaud the musical diversity (especially non-pop) that the Recording Academy embraces, from blues to jazz to classical, I wish there had been more rock ‘n’ roll in the show. While Jeff Beck’s tribute to the late Les Paul was warm and heartfelt, the rest of the night was mostly powered by pop, and a lot of it bland. Bon Jovi doesn’t really count as hard rock anymore, and their choices were pretty safe. I’m not even sure that the unorthodox pairing of Jamie Foxx and Slash made a difference in the edginess department.

Slash and Jamie Foxx rock the house. Sort of. (Photo ©2010 by Bryan Reesman.)

As a lifelong fan of metal and hard rock, I’m disappointed at how few true rock performances there have been over the past few years, and how the awards for those two aforementioned categories don’t even get mentioned during the telecast anymore. I also find it funny how groups like the Black-Eyed Peas can have a dance troupe outfitted in the most ridiculous costumes, yet many people would probably mock equally (or even less) cheesy metal attire.

Last year Kid Rock and Paul McCartney with Dave Grohl took the stage in the rock department, but admittedly the songs were crowd pleasers. It was cooler when the Foo Fighters jammed with Chick Corea a few years ago because it felt more improvised. And even if you’re not a fan of either group, Linkin Park and Nickelback sell oodles of albums and accounted for some of the biggest sellers of the ’00s. What, are they too big to play? And hey, AC/DC and Judas Priest won their first Grammys ever this year, and AC/DC’s last album Black Ice sold 2 million copies in America alone.

I say let’s bring back the rock next year. As a lark, someone I know suggested that GWAR play to stir things up. An interesting thought. I think it would be awesome to see Muse shake the Grammy rafters.

The Hard Rock marquis on Grammy night. (Photo ©2010 by Bryan Reesman.)

Inside the party on the upper level. (Photo ©2010 by Bryan Reesman.)

WPLJ DJ Christine Richie chats up the crowd and gives away cool goodies, like $100 Master Card gift certificates and a new iPhone. (Photo ©2010 by Bryan Reesman.)

Christine Richie during one of the commercial breaks. (Photo ©2010 by Bryan Reesman.)

Only the lucky ones, get to dine at the show. (Photo ©2010 by Bryan Reesman.)

Stealing a moment alone on the red carpet. (Photo ©2010 by Bryan Reesman.)

Monitoring the mix while host Stephen Colbert gives thanks for his award for Best Comedy Album. (Photo ©2010 by Bryan Reesman.)

Paul McCartney's bass because, well, it's Paul McCartney's bass. (Photo ©2010 by Bryan Reesman.)

Darius Rucker, now pulling double duty as a country artist and frontman for Hootie & the Blowfish.

This is a more unusual entry for A.D.D., but I am a diverse listener. And when I see people as wide-ranging as Dee Snider, Darius Rucker, Robert Plant and Avenged Sevenfold taking a country turn, some more focused than others, I take notice. Hence this GRAMMY story.

***

Blurring The Lines
July 30, 2009

Rock and pop artists going country, and vice versa

GRAMMY.com
Bryan Reesman

Over the course of the last two years numerous pop/rock artists have donned their Stetson hats and cowboy boots and taken forays into the country world. From Avenged Sevenfold to Bon Jovi to Jessica Simpson, some efforts have been mere dalliances while others more concerted efforts, but they all have arrived at a time when the different genres have found more common ground to cross-pollinate fruitfully. In recent years artists such as Daughtry, Rascal Flatts, Shania Twain, and Keith Urban have been blurring the lines between country and rock and pop.

Read more here